Excited by new 6.5mm(.264”) Bullet offerings.

ONE-TEN

ONE-TEN

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I’m excited with these newer 150+ grain bullet offerings from several manufacturers. Quite costly at upwards of $1 each fir some, however I think they will be worth a try in my 260 Ackley Improved. With G1 Ballistic Coefficient between .670BC to .713BC, they should be solid 1-mile performers. My 28” 1:7.5 twist Criterion Barrel would love to try some!😁

150gr. Nosler RDF BTHP.
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=NS&i=49826

150gr. Sierra SMK BTHP.
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=SI&i=1755

153.5gr. Berger LR Hybrid Target BTHP.
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=BG&i=26486

156gr. Berger Elite Hunter BTHP.
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=BG&i=26550

153gr. Hornady A-Tip Match BT.
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=HN&i=2638
 
Speaking of 6.5mm. I have an order coming in for 6.5 CM. I have 120-123 and 129 grain on hand. I ordered some 140 grain. And new brass.
1778284620847.webp
 
Which 140s do you find are most accurate?
Here are my relative accuracy findings with my new Shilen barrel on my 12 FV with an MDT Chassis.
ELD-M 140 gr Hornady #26331 out perform the Nosler CCs #26725 or RDFs #49824 for me - average of .258 at 100 yards compared to .267 and .275 respectively for the Noslers.

Most accurate overall, .242 average at 100 yards for 5 round groups, are the 147 gr Hornady ELD-Ms # 26333
The 2nd most accurate, so far, with a .254 average, are the 144 gr Berger LR Hybrid Targets #26485.

I assume the 143 grs are ELD-X Hornady # 2635. I haven't shot them in my current barrel yet. But my old factory barrel seemed to really like them.
This barrel appears to prefer heavier bullets but not by a large margin.
It is an individual barrel preference thing, I believe.

The same 12 FV action with the factory barrel shot the Nosler CC #26725 to an average of 0.276 and the Nosler RDF # 49824 to an average of .301.
I assume the 143 grs are ELD-X Hornady # 2635. I haven't shot them in my current barrel yet. But my old factory barrel averaged 0.317 with them.

My only experience with even heavier bullets (153 gr) in the factory barrel on this rifle just proved that the factory 1:8 twist wouldn't stabilize them.
 
CFJunkie said:
Which 140s do you find are most accurate?
Here are my relative accuracy findings with my new Shilen barrel on my 12 FV with an MDT Chassis.
ELD-M 140 gr Hornady #26331 out perform the Nosler CCs #26725 or RDFs #49824 for me - average of .258 at 100 yards compared to .267 and .275 respectively for the Noslers.

Most accurate overall, .242 average at 100 yards for 5 round groups, are the 147 gr Hornady ELD-Ms # 26333
The 2nd most accurate, so far, with a .254 average, are the 144 gr Berger LR Hybrid Targets #26485.

I assume the 143 grs are ELD-X Hornady # 2635. I haven't shot them in my current barrel yet. But my old factory barrel seemed to really like them.
This barrel appears to prefer heavier bullets but not by a large margin.
It is an individual barrel preference thing, I believe.

The same 12 FV action with the factory barrel shot the Nosler CC #26725 to an average of 0.276 and the Nosler RDF # 49824 to an average of .301.
I assume the 143 grs are ELD-X Hornady # 2635. I haven't shot them in my current barrel yet. But my old factory barrel averaged 0.317 with them.

My only experience with even heavier bullets (153 gr) in the factory barrel on this rifle just proved that the factory 1:8 twist wouldn't stabilize them.
Click to expand...
I always shot the Berger VLD when I shot 140 gr bullets, but Berger priced themselves out of my price range when Walt Berger passed. The only Berger bullets that I still shoot are the 135 gr .257" bullets. If I can get the Hornady 134 gr .257" bullets to shoot as good, I won't buy any more Bergers.
 
CFJunkie said:
My only experience with even heavier bullets (153 gr) in the factory barrel on this rifle just proved that the factory 1:8 twist wouldn't stabilize them.
Click to expand...

That’s why I decided on 1:7.5 for this Criterion barrel. Well, that & to be be different.😊 My Shilen Barrel was the the same 26” 1:8 that everybody uses. I don’t shoot any light bullets. The lightest I’ll load are the Lapua 139gr Scenar bullets. And only have them because a friend gave them to me. I won’t buy anything under 140gr. And I was concerned 1:8 likely wouldn’t be fast enough the for as long as these heavy .264” pills are.
 
I also still have a pound of Reloader 17 to use. I know the new thing is everyone using 26. I watched & studied all this happening and I’m skeptical. RL26 is a Magnum powder And I’m just not baggin’ what InterWebarians are takin’. But, we’ll see. I want to play with the RL17 a bit first though.
 
In my 6.5mm CM model 12 LRP factory barrel, RL-17 averaged 0.406 while H4350 averaged 0.317 for 305 5-round groups.
Not even close, in my opinion.
Haven't bothered with RL-17, StaBALL 6.5 or IMR4350 in my new Shilen barrel.
So far only H4350 and, in a few weeks H4831SC with the new barrel. They were the top two with the old barrel and the new barrel is currently averaging 0.257 with H4350.
 
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I got a surprise over the last two sessions with my Savage 12 FV 6.5mm CM with the 28-inch 1:8 twist Shilen Select Match 416R SS barrel.
I tried 130 gr ELD-M #26177 and Sierra TMK #7430 at 2772 and 2770 fps, respectively.
The ELD-Ms averaged 0.219 and the TMKs averaged 0.214 but one of the TMK loads averaged 0.188 and one of the ELD-M loads averaged 0.208.

Honestly, I didn't think the 130s would shoot that well. They didn't perform that well in my Savage factory barrel.
 
That's interesting news because I've got a "baby" 6.5 in the Grendel, both a cheapo 18" AR upper that shoots mostly wolf 100gr steel cased, and a 28" Satern Overwatch (1:8-5R) I had picked up on a clearance sale years ago to handload for and just haven't gotten around to finishing that upper build. There are already factory loads for the 6.5G in 130gr, so it's possible that I could see some decent success at that weight as well, albeit to a shorter overall range. The limitation won't be the potential accuracy based on the bullet. 😁
 
chronoblip,

Just remember, every barrel is a bit different.
My two 26-inch factory barrels just didn't like them.
My 24-inch factory barrel shot them better.

The new 28-inch Shilen barrel seems to be more forgiving.
But your experiment will be interesting to watch.
Wish you luck.
 
chronoblip said:
That's interesting news because I've got a "baby" 6.5 in the Grendel, both a cheapo 18" AR upper that shoots mostly wolf 100gr steel cased, and a 28" Satern Overwatch (1:8-5R) I had picked up on a clearance sale years ago to handload for and just haven't gotten around to finishing that upper build. There are already factory loads for the 6.5G in 130gr, so it's possible that I could see some decent success at that weight as well, albeit to a shorter overall range. The limitation won't be the potential accuracy based on the bullet. 😁
Click to expand...

Speaking of 6.5 Grendel. Im planing on getting one later this summer. Academy has Hornaday dies on sale for 40 bucks. I ordered dies in the mean time.
 
CoalCrackerAl said:
Speaking of 6.5 Grendel. Im planing on getting one later this summer. Academy has Hornaday dies on sale for 40 bucks. I ordered dies in the mean time.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a good deal! I've got a set of Lee dies, have tended to run with them as the "introduction" and then planned on hitting the ceiling before jumping to higher end stuff like Redding. I'll be curious to see how those Hornady dies treat you and what kind of results you get.

Now, what kind of action are you going to build? I am (too frequently) pondering (yet another) project because the COAL limits on a STANAG magazine are ~2.26", whereas a short action AICS can see all the way out to ~2.88" territory. Savage doesn't have a bottom metal compatible with STANAG magazines to my knowledge, but the apparent popularity of 6MM ARC (which uses the .220 Russian/6.5 Grendel as a parent case) means there's already off-the-shelf AICS magazines, and PTG has offered a "PPC" bolt face for Savages for a while now.

Sierra has separate load data for gas guns and bolt, and their 130gr bullets in a bolt can be pushed out towards ~2600fps, where the gas guns stop at ~2500fps, both out of a 24" test barrel. Unfortunately, if running that much boom tube, the relative effort to just go with something like a 260 REM/AI or 6.5 CM in a short action is hard to ignore. The 6.5G is kinda a "good all-arounder" sort of design philosophy, which is hard to market in this day and age where iterative improvements have to be presented as if they were categorical.

Because, I mean, why even go with "6.5 needsmore" when you could just skip straight to 6.5 PRC? :ROFLMAO:
 
The Grendel never sparked any interest for me. And I’m going back to when it was first introduced as a 223 replacement for standard AR15 magazines. That was its entire add campaign in the beginning. The “extra long range” of the 6.5mm. It was touted as not going sub-sonic until like 1400yds.! But I never bit. Honestly, it makes less sense to me in a Bolt Action?😕

I’m being serious, what do people see in it? The case is only capable enough to drive the smaller 6.5 pills. And when I think of any distance between 300-1000yds, there are at least 6 other cartridges I would choose first. I mean, if we are talking straight target shooting, it should be a 6mm. So what is the allure?
 
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ONE-TEN & Shoots100,

The name 'Creedmoor' is a reference to the first range used for the first National Rifle Association matches in 1874.
Surprisingly, it was held on a 70 acre plot at the edges of New York City in the outskirts of Queens County.
The match was an international match at 1,000 yards.

The US team beat an Irish team in the finals.
The US team used Remington rolling block and Sharps falling block actions while the Irish used actions built by John Rigby, a renowned Irish gunmaker. The US win with US made firearms was a shocker in the world of firearms.
Growth in New York City and Queens county eliminated the use of the area as a rifle range and it eventually became a psychiatric hospital and them a Farm Park.

The choice of the name "Creedmoor" for the new caliber rounds was chosen for the 6.5mm and 6mm rounds as a testimony to the fact that they were designed for use at 1,000 yards and further.
 
Sorry, didn't make that connection.
But, I was aware of the NRA matches in the post civil war period.

I was born in and lived in Queens County, NYC from 1943 to 1965.
I graduated from St. John's U and passed Creedmoor every day while attending.
As you probably know, Creedmoor was a well-known location during that time.
That name recognition was one of the reasons I bought a 6.5mm CM Savage 12 LRP in 2017.
 
Yes, I was speaking of the Grendel. I’ve no issues with the Creedmoor, although I went the 260Rem route. And now a 260AI match.


But good info. Wasn’t aware of the info behind the CM name. Speaking of 1000yd ranges, I do know, the first 1000yd range in the United States was actually in Pennsylvania. (Obviously PAY range for the public.)
 
chronoblip said:
That sounds like a good deal! I've got a set of Lee dies, have tended to run with them as the "introduction" and then planned on hitting the ceiling before jumping to higher end stuff like Redding. I'll be curious to see how those Hornady dies treat you and what kind of results you get.

Now, what kind of action are you going to build? I am (too frequently) pondering (yet another) project because the COAL limits on a STANAG magazine are ~2.26", whereas a short action AICS can see all the way out to ~2.88" territory. Savage doesn't have a bottom metal compatible with STANAG magazines to my knowledge, but the apparent popularity of 6MM ARC (which uses the .220 Russian/6.5 Grendel as a parent case) means there's already off-the-shelf AICS magazines, and PTG has offered a "PPC" bolt face for Savages for a while now.

Sierra has separate load data for gas guns and bolt, and their 130gr bullets in a bolt can be pushed out towards ~2600fps, where the gas guns stop at ~2500fps, both out of a 24" test barrel. Unfortunately, if running that much boom tube, the relative effort to just go with something like a 260 REM/AI or 6.5 CM in a short action is hard to ignore. The 6.5G is kinda a "good all-arounder" sort of design philosophy, which is hard to market in this day and age where iterative improvements have to be presented as if they were categorical.

Because, I mean, why even go with "6.5 needsmore" when you could just skip straight to 6.5 PRC? :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
This is my 3rd set of Hornady dies. Im very happy with the 2 i been using. I sold all my Lee rifle dies. Except for the 243 dies. The others had poor finish inside for the sizing ones. I also like RCBS and Lyman dies.
 
I know I made a thread about it, and how there are just too many 6mm cartridges, but if I was doing a dedicated rifle for 1000yds or less, I’d do a g6mmGT. The more you look at it, the more perfect it looks. The case is perfect for 6mm cartridges. It uses a really long neck so the bullets can be seated waaay out there, for max powder fill. No loading/ejecting problems from the case being too short, like the 6mm BR & derivatives, 6mmARC, etc. It’s slightly shorter than the 6x47 and uses a 35° shoulder which makes it unique.

I made the thread kinda being facetious, but after really looking at it, I think it really might be about perfect.

That said, I’m not really interested in doing a 6mm. I am in love with 6.5mm, .264”. But I’m not a fan of LIGHT WEIGHT for the diameter of the bullet. I think of flying TUNA cans in the air. No, when it comes to 6.5mm, I like 140gr MINIMUM! And the small cases just can’t drive these properly. That’s why I’m doing 260AI & a 28” barrel. I want the ability to push this thing FAR!
 
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A 6.5G is has better performance than either 5.56NATO or 7.62x39mm from the same barrel length in an AR platform due to being in a "sweet spot" for powder charge, and it only drops to a max magazine capacity of ~25. Like a comparison between 458 SOCOM versus 45-70 Govt. though, if you're not constrained by the AR envelope there's probably quite a few alternatives out there that offer better performance in some manner or another with the same projectiles.

From data that Sierra provides (using same powder for comparison sake):
6.5G Gas - 123gr HPBT - 2500ft/s via 27gr of IMR 8202XBR
6.5G Bolt - 123gr HPBT - 2650ft/s via 29gr of IMR 8208XBR
6.5CM - 123gr HPBT - 2850ft/s via 38gr of IMR 8208XBR

The 6.5G is not a high performance long range round all by itself, but it's efficient and compared to other cartridges that can be shot through a standard AR platform, it's been one of the better choices for longer ranges until the 6mm ARC came along. And even there, the differences between the 6.5G and 6mm ARC are not categorical, but since Hornady can push the 6mm ARC as "theirs", even those smaller differences will get magnified by marketing.

Which is also probably why Savage has offerings in 6mm ARC but not 6.5G. :cautious:
 

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