New guy in SE Idaho...

[chronoblip]

TL : DR version - I'm a mechanical engineer (and all that that implies) who loves how Savage products can cater to DIY and customization, and currently have a lefty SA Savage in 308 WIN that is my favorite rifle to shoot and modify, though I don't shoot it often enough to be very good yet.

Long version -

Hello all, I have an FLCP-SR that's slowly been modded on over the years, but not shot as much as it should have been because I kept letting life get in the way. Done a lot of dry firing with it as I would practice that alongside my home exercise routine, but not been great about doing that regularly enough either.

I've replaced the extractor setup to improve ejection, and can ~6/10 times catch casings as they come out of the action. Stock is now an ODG Magpul Hunter. Scope is an older Leupold MK4 2.5-8 with an illuminated mil-dot reticle, on some Leupold direct mounts and rings. Running an eBay Magpul clone plastic bipod.

Nowadays, most of my kids are interested in shooting and are old enough to go to the range, so I have more opportunities. As of our last range visit, I stayed on steel at 200yds, but decided that I wanted just a little bit more muzzle control without a big brake that'll spook my kids in the lanes next to me. Picked up a Precision Arms EFAB on sale last week and will report on how that setup compares to a plain flash hider.

Kids shoot either a .22LR Henry lever action, or a cheapo RH 6.5 Grendel 18" AR. They can keep shots on paper at 50yds and have been having fun and asking when we can go back to the range again. Win-win, right?

I've been eyeing the FDE stock LH 223 AXIS 2's that seem to be discontinued in that configuration combination, and prices are frequently less than $400. I am not a very good shot yet due to lack of consistent practice, and so having something to practice volume that's a bit cheaper overall, and that can be shared with the kids as another learning cartridge, would help me justify yet another rifle in my head at least.

Whether I pick up one of those or not, long term I'm also collecting the tools and parts to try out the 45 Raptor. I want to experiment with having simultaneous loads for subsonic long range (500-550gn cast), supersonic long range (~300gn custom brass monolithic), supersonic hunting (factory/standard style loads), and low recoil/plinking (230gn pistol projectiles) all functioning from the same platform with minimal action or magazine modifications. Depending on how all the NFA stuff plays out, may also play around with suppression too.

Anyways, thanks for your time if you got this far, and have a great day!

 

[ONE-TEN]

Welcome fellow Savage fan. I’m in the same boat you are. Last several years, my shooting time has drastically been reduced. However, I still build & work on firearms any chance I can. Sounds like you have a decent built model You should post pics. I’m also a huge fan of doing custom built Savages. This Model 10 I have is likely the most customized Savage you’ll see.

 

[CFJunkie]

Welcome to a dad that is training his kids to shoot.
My late wife and I had the good fortune to train my granddaughters at 9 and 7 years old to shoot.
She had them learn on her 10-22 rifle with a scope that I had modified for her with a Volquartsen trigger and a new barrel and stock.
She was pleased they enjoyed themselves and, with a little instruction, after one session, they were nailing 1/2 inch red dot stickers on targets at 25 yards.
When they found out that three shots would knock the red dots off the targets, they started to really get interested and got into a contest.
Soon we had piles of red dots lying on the ground.
Eventually, we ran out of red dots, but they went home happy.
They have both graduated from college but they still talk about grandma and the day at her range.

 

[chronoblip]

I have read that a taller mount is good for long distances, but I was not intending to do longer range (400+ yds), and so wanted to stay as close to the bore as possible. I also have tall cheek bones so this height works just fine. And yes, the handle does just clear the optic, but I do have to clock the scope cover catch otherwise it will get pulled off.

The magazine is an Amend2 12 round AICS, which doesn't have clearance issues even with the bipod closed to the shortest height. The stock also came with a 5 round from Magpul, and I have a 5 round Amend2. They're all plastic, but the Amend2 of either capacity are usually less than $20/ea, and on sale can be had for a lot less.

Finally, the hard plastic and the texture in the grip area wasn't the most comfortable, so I wrapped the grip with silicone tape, like for a bicycle. Not super tacky, it does have flex and is nicer to the touch.

 

[chronoblip]

Welcome to a dad that is training his kids to shoot.
My late wife and I had the good fortune to train my granddaughters at 9 and 7 years old to shoot.
She had them learn on her 10-22 rifle with a scope that I had modified for her with a Volquartsen trigger and a new barrel and stock.
She was pleased they enjoyed themselves and, with a little instruction, after one session, they were nailing 1/2 inch red dot stickers on targets at 25 yards.
When they found out that three shots would knock the red dots off the targets, they started to really get interested and got into a contest.
Soon we had piles of red dots lying on the ground.
Eventually, we ran out of red dots, but they went home happy.
They have both graduated from college but they still talk about grandma and the day at her range.

If we don't pass along the positive and practical experiences and show that firearms are just a tool, one that can be used in many ways, their opinions will be shaped by media, either to demonize or deify. Project cars, firearms, fishing, there's a lot of stuff that's losing ground amongst "the yoots", and not just because there aren't as many of them as there's supposed to be either. But that's a whole different topic...

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Welcome on board.

 

[ONE-TEN]

HEY! High scope mounts are the only way to go! I want to be able to shoot MAXIMUM distance! Like, FAR! And I mean, reeeeeally Far!

 

[ONE-TEN]

On a serious note, I like that older Mk4 2-8x36 with the back illumination. That’s a blast from the past! I don’t know if you know, but until just a few years ago, THAT was STILL the scope choice for the MK12 “SPR”, used by special operations in the Army & Navy. (Rangers & Seals baby!) Only difference is their Mk4’s used the M5 Turrets in “MRAD”, compared to yours with the M1 Turrets in MOA.

For the longest time, I dreamed about owning the Mk4 4.5-14x50.

 

[rwilky78]

Hello and welcome from NE Indiana!!!!

 

[chronoblip]

On a serious note, I like that older Mk4 2-8x36 with the back illumination. That’s a blast from the past! I don’t know if you know, but until just a few years ago, THAT was STILL the scope choice for the MK12 “SPR”, used by special operations in the Army & Navy. (Rangers & Seals baby!) Only difference is their Mk4’s used the M5 Turrets in “MRAD”, compared to yours with the M1 Turrets in MOA.

For the longest time, I dreamed about owning the Mk4 4.5-14x50.

Well that's cool, and I didn't know that. I looked up the MK12 SPR and can see the different turrets, but otherwise same scope body. It seems like Leupold hasn't quite been the "cool kid" in a while, but marketing isn't market share or reputation, and an optic that's used in active duty is going to be pushed hard. Like that scene from "Tommy Boy", not sure if the warranty on some of the other popular scope manufacturers scopes gives soldiers the warm fuzzy feeling they want from their gear.

Either way, it's clear Leupold hold their value, as there's some of that Mark 4 series on eBay that are still north of $1500, USED.

Tangentially, I toured the Leupold plant and had hoped to get hired by them out of college, as I am also from Oregon, but alas that didn't work out. Would have had an entirely different life path and Oregon is not very 2A friendly anymore either, which is part of why I am now rural Idaho.

But there's a lot more open plains here, and wind to go with them, compared to the forests and hills I grew up with. Might need to rethink my setup should I try to hunt, as I've been told that elk are magical creatures that can disappear in a desert. So I either need to learn how to take ethical shots at longer ranges (a contentious topic all by itself) or track magical creatures. Sometimes holes in paper is just easier, but it sure doesn't taste as good.

 

[Fjold]

Welcome, I used to live in Idaho Falls back in the mid-80's.

 

[ONE-TEN]

There’s no mystery to bagging elk. Just like any other big game. Watch your wind. (For carrying one’s scent) And stick a good hunting (bonding expanding), bullet on its shoulder.

There are quite a few hunters who use black powder, and Bow. So distance isn’t an issue.

 

[chronoblip]

Welcome, I used to live in Idaho Falls back in the mid-80's.

I am about as Rigby as you can get while the post office claims I am still Idaho Falls. The region has seen a lot of changes just in the few years we've been here, and my prior boss who grew up in the area said even the last 10-15 years have seen massive shifts. I can only imagine how it's changed since you were here.

There’s no mystery to bagging elk. Just like any other big game. Watch your wind. (For carrying one’s scent) And stick a good hunting (bonding expanding), bullet on its shoulder.

There are quite a few hunters who use black powder, and Bow. So distance isn’t an issue.

I've got a co-worker who swears by Nosler, and it seems like hunting bullets with good reputation aren't cheap. I was planning to load on 223 REM, to establish a statistical method that I can comprehend and work with to identify a "good load", but with cheaper components at first.

Then, once I've got solid fundamentals, I'll switch over to the relatively more expensive 308 WIN and not end up wasting as much time and resources when the components are priced for folks maybe taking 5-10 shots a year.

At least that's the current plan, subject to revision.

 

[ONE-TEN]

Unfortunately, working up an accurate load does not transfer between cartridges. Most cartridges use completely different powder. So working with 223 will give you ZERO knowledge as to what works for 308. Luckily, there are many reloading guides which give very good starting loads, from which the shooter can expound on. Most people buy reloading guys, like the Lyman. I have an older edition. However, there are many free online guides. When you’ve been reloading for sometime, it comes naturally. You just know what powders work with what cartridges.

The great news is, some simple case prep, a good bullet and acceptable powder recommended for your cartridge, will yield better precision than pretty much any factory loadings.

 

[chronoblip]

I guess to put differently, I've read articles and forum threads, and listened to a couple podcasts, regarding the various methodologies to identify "accuracy nodes", with the thrust of some claims being that historically people shoot too small a group to determine whether they have a "good" load or not. That, when the group size being evaluated is expanded in number, the data becomes a lot less decisive at the charge levels or component combinations identified through 3 or 5 shot groups.

In this light, I am not using 223 REM to test specific load data for 308 WIN, charges or powders or brands of primers, but figuring out my methodology for identifying load viability while using the recipes that have already been outlined through the hard work and experimentation of others before me.

Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that jazz.

I can do 3 shot groups and see what I get or jump to 20 shot groups composited from multiple 5 shot groups, using "mean radius" versus "extreme spread", try out all the tips and tricks and methods that I have read and heard about on how to identify when a particular load is noteworthy. And relatively cheap because it's 223 REM.

That's the fundamentals I don't have developed right now, the underlying methodology to ascertain when I actually have a "good load" versus only the impression that is thanks to apophenia and a small sampling of data.

Does that make any sense?

Even if I just took someone else's methodology and followed it exactly, starting with a less expensive round feels like a better way to not shortcut the process in a rush to get results.

So a $0.20/rd projectile gets used instead of a $1.50/rd.

 

[ONE-TEN]

Yes, I understand your meaning now. To some extent, yes, this is the case. In general, I only accept 5-shot groups; 10-shot are even better! However, if shooting 3-shot groups is performed, and every group after group after group, is precise, the evidence points to the load being quite good. Regardless of using 3-shot groups.

One other point I wanted to touch on was your use of the Polymer AICS magazines. I too, use those polymer mags. I like them very much; However mine are the Magpul AICS. Although the Steel AICS mags allow me to load cartridges to 2.950” OAL. This is quite favorable for my 260 AI, allowing the extra powder charge & 140gr+ projectiles to reach 3000fps from my 28” barrel.

 

[CFJunkie]

I find that different rifle barrels in the same caliber and barrel length don't even perform the same with the same loads, and much worse, they don't even shoot the same bullet weights with the same accuracy.
And just change a barrel and you start all over.

I have had that occur with .223s, 6.5mm CMs, and .308 with different Savage rifles and then with different barrels.
The only thing that helps me get into the best accuracy range with a new rifle or barrel quickly is using Optimum Bullet Time, but you have to know the barrel steel and the exact length of the barrel. Barrel specs are not always accurate. 16 of over 40 barrels measured were off spec measurements by up to 3/8 of an inch.
But only gets you into the accuracy range, you still have to test to find with what bullet weights and shapes the barrel performs best.

 

[Fjold]

I find that different rifle barrels in the same caliber and barrel length don't even perform the same with the same loads, and much worse, they don't even shoot the same bullet weights with the same accuracy.
And just change a barrel and you start all over.

I have had that occur with .223s, 6.5mm CMs, and .308 with different Savage rifles and then with different barrels.
The only thing that helps me get into the best accuracy range with a new rifle or barrel quickly is using Optimum Bullet Time, but you have to know the barrel steel and the exact length of the barrel. Barrel specs are not always accurate. 16 of over 40 barrels measured were off spec measurements by up to 3/8 of an inch.
But only gets you into the accuracy range, you still have to test to find with what bullet weights and shapes the barrel performs best.

When I was a competitive shooter, I ordered two identical barrels from Krieger. I had them both chambered with the same reamer and threaded at the same time. When I shot out the first barrel, I had the second barrel installed and it didn't shoot anything like the first barrel. I had to switch bullets and bump the powder charge by 1/2 of a grain to get a similar accuracy level.

 

[Alan]

hey @chronoblip Welcome to The Savage Owners Forum! Good for you the kids are old enough. Thanks for the introduction! Hope you enjoy your stay here.

 

[Frontiersman]

That is some beautiful country in your area. Welcome.