Clean or fouled Savage barrels

[DR9un]

I’m curious what you guys are seeing with your Savage factory barrels. It’s no secret they can be copper mines because of the rougher finish from the button rifling, but how are you handling the maintenance?
I’ve been doing a full scrub copper and all after every session. Mine seems to hit its stride after a few foulers and stays tight for about 20 shots before opening up.

I’m thinking about skipping the copper solvent next time and just cleaning out the carbon to see if it likes a little copper in the grooves.
Do you find your Savage shoots better squeaky clean, or do you let it season a bit for better consistency?

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I don't clean mine down to the bare metal most of the time. I keep an eye on the carbon ring. A general solvent soak with a brush scrub and patch out is good for awhile. If the rough finish gets on you nerves. It can be polished out. Bottom pic is before. Top after.

 

[Alan]

I’m curious what you guys are seeing with your Savage factory barrels. It’s no secret they can be copper mines because of the rougher finish from the button rifling, but how are you handling the maintenance?
I’ve been doing a full scrub copper and all after every session. Mine seems to hit its stride after a few foulers and stays tight for about 20 shots before opening up.

I’m thinking about skipping the copper solvent next time and just cleaning out the carbon to see if it likes a little copper in the grooves.
Do you find your Savage shoots better squeaky clean, or do you let it season a bit for better consistency?

The ones on display are squeaky clean. The ones I often use, not much.

 

[DR9un]

The ones on display are squeaky clean. The ones I often use, not much.

Yh, this is me. One thing I found is that it's very hard to get the copper out if I let it build up too long. Is this a common thing?

 

[CFJunkie]

After every 100 rounds or so, I use Patch Out with a swipe of Accelerator before I apply Patch Out.

I generally leave them in the barrel for at least an hour, but there have been times they were left overnight.
For my .223 and 6.5mm CMs, I prefer Patch Out because the Wipe Out tube doesn't mate with the chamber as well and foam gets into the action. For my .308 with a muzzle brake, I use Wipe Out foam after a swipe of Accelerator because it cleans the muzzle break better.

After cleaning, looking down the bore, there might be a bit of copper in spots (probably the most abrasive) but it is mostly clear of copper.
Either Patch Out or Wipe Out seems to keep the copper to a reasonable level without being severe.
I stopped using the copper cleaners that warn about leaving them in the barrel too long.

A super clean barrel seems to take a few more rounds to get settled. If its clean, but not squeaky clean, it only takes one or two rounds to get right on POA. I have always found that all my cleaned barrels need at least one sighter to get back to shooting at POA.
I always had my hunting rifles go on a hunt after there had been at least one round down the barrel (even it had to be put away uncleaned for weeks) and my first shot was always on POA, unless the shooter did something stupid.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Some say if you put some lock ease. On a patch and run it through the bore. It helps on saving fouling shots.

 

[Barrelnut]

Some say if you put some lock ease. On a patch and run it through the bore. It helps on saving fouling shots.

^^^ THIS ^^^
It's an old “Speed Gonzales trick and works pretty well. Much better than oil for sure...

 

[CFJunkie]

I learn something every day.
I'll have to try that.

 

[K9TXS]

While at the range I clean lightly every now and then. Normally when doing load development and going from one load to another. Same thing on a prairie dog hunt. When I'm ready to leave the range, I put an accelerator in followed by a foaming cleaning. Get home, a few patches through the barrel followed again by an accelerator then the foaming cleaner. Later patch that out and flush it out well. That's it!

The foaming cleaner normally stays in 1.5 hours or so.

I also don't use a factory barrel, that's probably one reason I've never had copper build up.

 

[ONE-TEN]

I couldn’t say one way or t’other. I only competed in pistol, and that was long ago. And my rifle shooting for many years, has been seldom & just for fun. (When I’m able to get out.) But I keep firearms, including the rifle bores, super clean. Though, grouping is always done after fouling the bore, so I don’t know.

 

[6clint]

FOR ME, I know fresh off the assembly line, every non-lapped factory barrel needs refined - Every new barrel gets 20-30 strokes of JB paste with Kroil on felt pellets. That gets followed by 20-30 strokes of JB Polish with Kroil on felt pellets. Then all of that gets removed with patches & cleaner. Break in with as much cleaning in between shots that I have the patience to do for the first 30-50 shots. Once POI is close to POA I stop touching the dials & hold POA constant to watch it settle in to a group. Clean every 10 rounds up to 100 & then dial it in for POA=POI. The rifle system will tell you the truth at some point - be honest enough to listen.

 

[Fjold]

I think that every barrel has its quirks.

I have a Winchester 375 H&H magnum that you could mine for copper after the first couple of shots. After a dozen rounds, I can scrub with copper remover until I wear my arm out and it will still have copper in it. The thing is that it will shoot sub-MOA weather clean or dirty. The gun doesn't seem to be affected by copper fouling at all.

I also have a Ruger M77 in 7 Mag that will shoot 2-3" groups until you get 20+ rounds through it and then it will shoot bugholes for the next 100+ rounds.

 

[Pirate69]

This is the seasoning of a McGowan 6.5X55mm Swede barrel after a detailed "bare metal" cleaning. I wish I had had 5 more rounds available at the time to see the next group.

 

[ONE-TEN]

Excellent!

I’m wondering though, why the big difference? Is it that the top two are BEFORE the cleaning & bottom two After? I’m just confused with that.

Also curious what bullet you’re using & with your powder choice. RS Hunter is a pretty cold powder. It’s basically Magnum powder. Have you tried H4350, H4831SC or Reloader-19?

 

[Pirate69]

Excellent!

I’m wondering though, why the big difference? Is it that the top two are BEFORE the cleaning & bottom two After? I’m just confused with that.

Also curious what bullet you’re using & with your powder choice. RS Hunter is a pretty cold powder. It’s basically Magnum powder. Have you tried H4350, H4831SC or Reloader-19?

All 20 rounds are after the cleaning. It took 20 rounds to settle in to acceptable accuracy after the detailed cleaning. The bullet is a Nosler 140 gr HPBT CC blem. Few years ago, picked up an opened 8-lb jug of RS Hunter for $60. Just need to use it and developed a load with it. At my age, I need to be burning the powders I have on hand.

 

[Paddyd]

Id never consider it in a quality barrel, but the average Savage barrel is far from what Id call quality. If I was going to keep my factory barrel, and I have done this on a 110FP is go buy a Tubb fire lapping kit and follow the outlined procedure. It will make your bullet jump longer after by a couple thousands, but that is not an issue. Before lapping, my 308 FP would grab copper and carbon at alarming rates. It cut that by more than half. Ive since retired that barrel in favor of a Criterion which after a 30 rd session shows no blue on patches at all. It's hard doing load work up on a barrel that is completely fouled after 3, 5 shot groups.

 

[Pirate69]

Id never consider it in a quality barrel, but the average Savage barrel is far from what Id call quality. If I was going to keep my factory barrel, and I have done this on a 110FP is go buy a Tubb fire lapping kit and follow the outlined procedure. It will make your bullet jump longer after by a couple thousands, but that is not an issue. Before lapping, my 308 FP would grab copper and carbon at alarming rates. It cut that by more than half. Ive since retired that barrel in favor of a Criterion which after a 30 rd session shows no blue on patches at all. It's hard doing load work up on a barrel that is completely fouled after 3, 5 shot groups.

I don't think many people would disagree with you that the average Savage barrel is not of the quality of a number of aftermarket barrels. Some of the aftermarket barrels costing more than a complete Savage rifle. But some Savage barrels have been found to shoot very well and not have excessive cleaning issues. It has been reported that Shaw barrels have been generally used for Savage rifles. I think, for the casual shooter, they represent a pretty good deal and can be expected to shoot 1 MOA or less. But not your serious competition rifle.

The barrel on my 223 Savage Axis seems to be one of the better Savage barrels. It has good accuracy and cleans up well without a lot of copper deposition. Does it throw a shot sometimes? Perhaps or it could be me. As an example, the two groups pictured shot one shot out of the group. Both groups tease at what could have been great groups for me.

 

[CFJunkie]

I agree with you, Pirate69.

I've heard some who have had problems with Savage barrels.
I have shot 8 different Savage barrels in four different calibers and have never had any problem averaging under 0.6 MOA with any of them.
Four of them were much more accurate than that, but my accuracy was better with the smaller calibers, so recoil or more precisely getting back into the same position after recoil seemed to be more of an issue than the barrel.

I changed out one Savage factory barrel with a replacement Savage target barrel when I had worn out the original barrel and the rifle shot better, but I think it might have also been me learning more about accurate shooting.

I have recently replaced two barrels on Savages with Shilen Select Match barrels and the accuracy of each rifle improved between 19 and 23% depending upon the caliber. Surprisingly, the heavier caliber barrel improved more, perhaps because the new SS bull barrel weighed 2lbs more than the factory barrel it replaced. Weight of the rifle tends to reduce felt recoil.

 

[Paddyd]

I don't think many people would disagree with you that the average Savage barrel is not of the quality of a number of aftermarket barrels. Some of the aftermarket barrels costing more than a complete Savage rifle. But some Savage barrels have been found to shoot very well and not have excessive cleaning issues. It has been reported that Shaw barrels have been generally used for Savage rifles. I think, for the casual shooter, they represent a pretty good deal and can be expected to shoot 1 MOA or less. But not your serious competition rifle.

The barrel on my 223 Savage Axis seems to be one of the better Savage barrels. It has good accuracy and cleans up well without a lot of copper deposition. Does it throw a shot sometimes? Perhaps or it could be me. As an example, the two groups pictured shot one shot out of the group. Both groups tease at what could have been great groups for me.

I'm a fan of the Criterion barrels. Never had one that wouldnt shoot consistently at or below 1/2" and this one has never had a cold bore shot out of the group or fliers after careful load workup. I dont think they can be beat for a sub $400 prefit.

 

[ONE-TEN]

Nothing wrong with Savage Barreks. However, they are factory barrels. Besides being Carbon Steel & not SS like the best Match barrels are, they simply lack the superb precision put into every aftermarket SS match barrel.

I also prefer Criterion. Just as Paddy posted, they simply shoot! Great Barrels & great background. Although I have no o problem with Shilen, or many of the others as well. Not for nothing, but Shilen barrels DO have a WINNING background.

 

[CFJunkie]

The Model 12 LRPVs have SS barrels, at least the recent ones I've seen. I think some other Model 12s also have SS barrels.
A 12 LRPV .223 with a 26-in 1:7 twist SS factory barrel that I am familiar with, currently averages 1/4 MOA for 5-round groups at 100 yards with 69 through 90 gr bullets and 0.2 MOA with 80 and 90 gr bullets.
That factory barrel shoots good, but the shooter knows how to tailor loads for a reasonably good barrel and knows how to shoot accurately.
It takes someone who is a precision reloader and shoots at least 3,500 rounds a year while really concentrating on getting accurate groups to get that kind of results.
The particular shooter I know has records that go back 2 1/2 years and also can tell you what loads didn't perform at the level he is now shooting.

He and I share reloading info, so I know his data as well almost as well as I know my own. His 12 LRPV is now performing better than my original 12 FV .223 with a factory barrel. I have a slight edge with my 12 FV with the new Shilen Select Match 26-inch 1:7 416R SS barrel, but the advantage is slight.

 

[K80skeet]

I agree with you, Pirate69.

I've heard some who have had problems with Savage barrels.
I have shot 8 different Savage barrels in four different calibers and have never had any problem averaging under 0.6 MOA with any of them.
Four of them were much more accurate than that, but my accuracy was better with the smaller calibers, so recoil or more precisely getting back into the same position after recoil seemed to be more of an issue than the barrel.

I changed out one Savage factory barrel with a replacement Savage target barrel when I had worn out the original barrel and the rifle shot better, but I think it might have also been me learning more about accurate shooting.br

I have recently replaced two barrels on Savages with Shilen Select Match barrels and the accuracy of each rifle improved between 19 and 23% depending upon the caliber. Surprisingly, the heavier caliber barrel improved more, perhaps because the new SS bull barrel weighed 2lbs more than the factory barrel it replaced. Weight of the rifle tends to reduce felt recoil.

I have had excellent results from Savage factory barrels. I have a couple of 6mmbr's 1 in12 twist that I rechambered to a shorter freebore as I think Savage used the same reamer for the 1 in 8 twist and the lighter bullets aren't even in the case. both shoot in the mid to low 2' and I have a .223 with a 1 in 9 twist that shoots in the low 2's with 69gr Sierra match kings. I have Krieger,Brux,Bartien, Lilja and Shilin that don't shoot any better. They are all in top of the line Savages LRPV with target actions and H&S stocks. They don't copper up or carbon up.

 

[Pirate69]

I'm a fan of the Criterion barrels. Never had one that wouldnt shoot consistently at or below 1/2" and this one has never had a cold bore shot out of the group or fliers after careful load workup. I dont think they can be beat for a sub $400 prefit.

Nice group.

 

[K80skeet]

I don't think many people would disagree with you that the average Savage barrel is not of the quality of a number of aftermarket barrels. Some of the aftermarket barrels costing more than a complete Savage rifle. But some Savage barrels have been found to shoot very well and not have excessive cleaning issues. It has been reported that Shaw barrels have been generally used for Savage rifles. I think, for the casual shooter, they represent a pretty good deal and can be expected to shoot 1 MOA or less. But not your serious competition rifle.

The barrel on my 223 Savage Axis seems to be one of the better Savage barrels. It has good accuracy and cleans up well without a lot of copper deposition. Does it throw a shot sometimes? Perhaps or it could be me. As an example, the two groups pictured shot one shot out of the group. Both groups tease at what could have been great groups for me.

Try some W748 .25.0gr with a 69gr Sierra SMK at .005-0.10 of the lands they shoot in the sub 2's out of my 1 in 9 twist .223 LRPV. 5 shot groups. I have found Lapua & Remington brass works the best.