what do you think about Savage Rifles long range precision?

[8ulletProof]

I’m looking into a new long range build in either .223 or 6.5 Creedmoor, and I keep seeing mixed reviews on Savage. People say they’re tack drivers right out of the box, but I’ve also heard plenty of horror stories about QC issues.
For you guys who own one, I wonder what your experience has been like?

What model do you use, how does the accuracy hold up, and have you run into any problems? Is it worth the gamble for a budget precision rig?

 

[CFJunkie]

You'll probably get a lot of different opinions, but I'll give you mine.
I can't claim any long range experience because our range is in a populated area and is limited to 100 yards.
But I can attest to accuracy of Savage rifles. I have had 7 factory Savages and 8 different factory barrels and I have never had a complaint with the accuracy or their actions. Some of the stocks were light and oriented to hunting and I have long arms and many of the stocks were short for me. But the basic actions and barrels were accurate.

First, I believe that a long range rig needs to be stable and probably heavy.
I also believe that the stock should be either adjustable or long enough to accommodate a large user.
I would also tend to recommend model 12 Savages because they seem to be designed to support precision shooting with longer barrels and higher end stocks.
I like the MDT chassis models.
(I have mounted 4 different Savages on MDT chassis and got improvements in fit and accuracy).

I have three model 12 Savages, two in 6.5mm CM and one in .223.

My most expensive is a 26-inch barrel 12 LRP 6.5mm CM with the factory supplied HS Precision stock and mag.
From the first session, it has been extremely accurate and prefers bullets from 140 to 147 grains. It is a solid performer in its factory configuration.

I bought a second 26-inch barrel 12 FV 6.5mm CM (made especially for Cabela's) that cost about 30% of the cost of the 12 FV LRP. The action and barrel were great. It had a hidden mag and a flimsy stock. I had to change out the factory stock that didn't have the aluminum stiffener rod that the LRP had and twisted under recoil.
I put the 12 FV in an Oryx chassis and it shoots just about as accurately as the more expensive 12 LRP.
Both have over 4,500 rounds down their barrels and I have just replaced the barrel in the 12 FV.
It is too soon to report on its accuracy with a statistically valid sample , but it seems to be more accurate than the factory barrel on the order of at least 20%.

I also bought a 26-inch barrel 12 FV .223 1:9 twist on the same day for the same price. I put an Oryx chassis on that one as well and it also shot great.
I would recommend a 1:7 twist .223 barrel for long distance shooting so you can use bullets of 77 gr to 90 grains.
With the factory barrel, I managed to shoot 9,030 rounds and averaged 0.271 for over 1,500 5-round groups, including several different bullet weights and powders that performed poorly in it its barrel.
(Not every bullet powder combination is suited to every barrel.)
Its top 100 loads averaged 0.236 for 404 groups, so it shot what it liked very accurately.

I have since replaced the worn out factory barrel on the .223 12 FV with a Shilen 26-inch 1:7 twist barrel. The beauty of Savage rifles is that it is incredibly easy to change barrels. Mine took 30 minutes to remove and 30 minutes to install. This was my first time and it took a little experimentation to get the barrel off.

The new barrel has shot up to 90 gr bullets and has shot 391 5-round groups (100 different loads) to an average of 0.211. The top 50 loads averaged 0.198 for 195 groups.

The Savage rifles shoot great, the shooter doesn't always.

 

[WNYBILL]

If you are looking for budget, 223, components are much cheaper. However, the Creed will shoot flatter and buck the wind better. Not sure of the model numbers but look for a rifle with the RED trigger blade.

 

[CFJunkie]

The 6.5mm CM with the red blade Precision Target Trigger and the HS Precision stock is the 12 LRP.
Mine was incredibly accurate right out of the box.
It was the only rifle I have ever owned that left contrails from the 25 yard line to the 100 yard target.
Lots of shooters at our range took videos of the contrails. Can't explain it, but my other two 6.5mm CMs don't do it.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have a 110 Varmint 223. It's very accurate after i found a load it likes.

 

[6clint]

Disclaimer: I have NO EXPERIENCE with modern rifles from Remington, Ruger or anyone else so I don't know if they are as good or better than Savage. CF Junkie said it well. I'll second his recommendation that if you REALLY are intending use for "Long Distance", lean towards the Model 10/110 or 12 actions. If you're moving towards competition look into the Model 12; I prefer the SS Single-shot dual-port Target Action but there are other options.
One measure of whether a company has a good product is repeat customer traffic (how many times customers come back to buy more of their product). As for me, I have 4 Model 12 Target Actions. (6BR, 6.5-284 Norma, 308FTR & 260 Rem - most with NSS CBI barrels), I have somewhere around a dozen rifles in Model 10, 110, or 116 with factory barrels. Not bragging, just qualifying my next sentence - if I do my part, they ALL shoot lights out.

 

[Tacoma]

I bought my 2016 Savage LRPV in .223 with 1:7 twist unfluted barrel used about 6 months ago. I've got several other rifles, (including a semi custom Bergara HMR PRO) but this one is by far my favorite. Everything from the smoothness of the bolt throw, to the stock quality, to the overall fit and finish talks quality. I hanv't started reloading/load developement for it yet but this rifle is EASILY the most accurate rifle I have ever owned. Often my groups are one hole at 100 yds but 1/2- 3/4 MOA is pretty typical out to 300 with factory 77 gr match ammo.
Knowing what I know now, I kick myself for not buying one sooner.

 

[K9TXS]

My son gave me a Savage rifle he had in .308. It never shot very well at all, but it was one of those "on sale" rifles that Savage puts out. It took forever to get a 0 at 100 yards, but it would not keep it. Very cheap, twistable plastic stock.

Fast foward to today! I stripped it down completely to just the model 10 action. I put it in a KRG Bravo stock and added a 24" barrel from The Urbanrifleman in 6BR. I also did a bunch of other little things as well.

I shoot regularly at 300 yards and it easily hold MOA or slightly less depending on the wind that day. I have shot steel out to 400 yards and could ring it on every shot.

Now for a really long range shot, check out the X-Ring on YouTube. I think he has 2 or three videos on this. Ray takes a factory Savage, I think in 6.5 CM, not sure, and first shoots it 1000 yards and then later at 1 Mile. It took him several shots but he did hit the plate multiple times.

I don't shoot past 400 yards so this 6BR works well for me. If you plan on shooting further on a regular basis, I would put a good chassis stock on it for sure and a quality scope & rings.

Let us know what you come up with.

 

[CFJunkie]

That's why I prefer the model 12s with the good stocks or the MDT Chassis.
The cheap stocks on the bargain rifles are just not up to accurate shooting, IMO.
Rifles with a bit of recoil like a .308 just make the impact more severe.

Glad you solved the problem. Sounds like you now have a solution you can live with.
And the 6BR has less recoil than a .308.

 

[ONE-TEN]

CF makes good points.

One thing I would ask, do you wish to BUY a rifle, or BUILD one? I guess what I mean is, do you enjoy modifying, tweaking your firearms, as I do? Or are you more like people who don’t want to touch anything? It’s much like fast cars. There are those who simply want to BUY a fast car & drive it. And others, (again, like myself), who enjoy building & tuning their own race car. You will find many savage enthusiasts prefer to modify their own.

Next question. What do YOU consider to be Long Range Shooting? 223Rem & 6.5CM have different max ranges. Obviously, the 6.5 is much more capable past around 700yds. I started with a 260 Remington, which is much like the 6.5CM. (It’s Nemesis you could say.) I then rebarreled to 260AI. Same cartridge, but Ackley Improved. However, like CFJunkie, I’ve not had the chance to stretch its legs. My max range, within relative distance is to me, is 300yds. I will say this, however, accuracy at 100, or 200, or 300yds, is a very good anticipation of accuracy at further target distances. A rifle that prints 1/2” groups or better at 100yds, is likely to is likely to have the same at the max effective range for the given Cartridge chosen. (Again, a 223 is about out of wind at maybe 700-800yds, even with the heaviest loads, where a 6.5CM will reach close to 1mile effectively.) And obviously, shooter skill-set is a huge part. Remember that accuracy is simply a byproduct a Precision.

My honest recommendation is that you purchase the rifle YOU like the most. Case in point: I am a Savage 110 rifle fan. Have been for close to three Decades! I’ve put quite a bit of money into building my bench rifle, which is a Savage Model 10 Action at the core. I’ve had others look down on it & say it’s dumb to dump money into a Savage. And YES, for the same $$ (well, slightly more), I could have built a Custom Action with higher precision than any Savage! Using say, a Bighorn Action for instance! But that’s not what I wanted. I didn’t do this to have the most accurate rifle on earth. I wanted to build a unique, high precision SAVAGE. So again I say, get what YOU want. Get a rifle because YOU like it! Maybe it is Savage. Or maybe you prefer a Tikka T3 or a Howa 1500, or Remington 700. And that’s fine, whichever you choose. Trust me. You will be most happy with the rifle YOU like the most.

Now, if it is Savage, yes, they are capable of great precision from the box. Frankly, NO factory rifle wins competition out of the box. But if I wanted an out of the box Savage & didn’t want to mess with it, I also would get a Model 12LRP. (Because I like having a magazine.) If you are ok with single shot, the Model 12LRPV (Long Range Precision Varmint), has the highest capability as is.

I’m sorry for being so long winded. I hope maybe it you and other newer shooters some good information to consider.

 

[K80skeet]

CF makes good points.

One thing I would ask, do you wish to BUY a rifle, or BUILD one? I guess what I mean is, do you enjoy modifying, tweaking your firearms, as I do? Or are you more like people who don’t want to touch anything? It’s much like fast cars. There are those who simply want to BUY a fast car & drive it. And others, (again, like myself), who enjoy building & tuning their own race car. You will find many savage enthusiasts prefer to modify their own.

Next question. What do YOU consider to be Long Range Shooting? 223Rem & 6.5CM have different max ranges. Obviously, the 6.5 is much more capable past around 700yds. I started with a 260 Remington, which is much like the 6.5CM. (It’s Nemesis you could say.) I then rebarreled to 260AI. Same cartridge, but Ackley Improved. However, like CFJunkie, I’ve not had the chance to stretch its legs. My max range, within relative distance is to me, is 300yds. I will say this, however, accuracy at 100, or 200, or 300yds, is a very good anticipation of accuracy at further target distances. A rifle that prints 1/2” groups or better at 100yds, is likely to is likely to have the same at the max effective range for the given Cartridge chosen. (Again, a 223 is about out of wind at maybe 700-800yds, even with the heaviest loads, where a 6.5CM will reach close to 1mile effectively.) And obviously, shooter skill-set is a huge part. Remember that accuracy is simply a byproduct a Precision.

My honest recommendation is that you purchase the rifle YOU like the most. Case in point: I am a Savage 110 rifle fan. Have been for close to three Decades! I’ve put quite a bit of money into building my bench rifle, which is a Savage Model 10 Action at the core. I’ve had others look down on it & say it’s dumb to dump money into a Savage. And YES, for the same $$ (well, slightly more), I could have built a Custom Action with higher precision than any Savage! Using say, a Bighorn Action for instance! But that’s not what I wanted. I didn’t do this to have the most accurate rifle on earth. I wanted to build a unique, high precision SAVAGE. So again I say, get what YOU want. Get a rifle because YOU like it! Maybe it is Savage. Or maybe you prefer a Tikka T3 or a Howa 1500, or Remington 700. And that’s fine, whichever you choose. Trust me. You will be most happy with the rifle YOU like the most.

Now, if it is Savage, yes, they are capable of great precision from the box. Frankly, NO factory rifle wins competition out of the box. But if I wanted an out of the box Savage & didn’t want to mess with it, I also would get a Model 12LRP. (Because I like having a magazine.) If you are ok with single shot, the Model 12LRPV (Long Range Precision Varmint), has the highest capability as is.

I’m sorry for being so long winded. I hope maybe it you and other newer shooters some good information to consider.

I have (4) LRPV rifles and they are all shooters. I have a lot of custom action and barrels from Brux, Krieger, Bartleen and Wilson. They are all great shooters. You can't compare a Savage action to the best custom actions and their barrels to the best barrel makers. With that being said I have a couple of Savages that shoot every bit as good as the custom rifles. That's really saying something for those Savage LRPV rifles. and they less than 1/3 of the money and don't take 2 years from start to finish. Their trigger leave something to be desired but all in all they are shooters for sure.

 

[ONE-TEN]

I have (4) LRPV rifles and they are all shooters. I have a lot of custom action and barrels from Brux, Krieger, Bartleen and Wilson. They are all great shooters. You can't compare a Savage action to the best custom actions and their barrels to the best barrel makers. With that being said I have a couple of Savages that shoot every bit as good as the custom rifles. That's really saying something for those Savage LRPV rifles. and they less than 1/3 of the money and don't take 2 years from start to finish. Their trigger leave something to be desired but all in all they are shooters for sure.

Well of course you can compare a Savage to any custom! You just did! LOL! J/K

Seriously though, I get it. I’m smellin’ what you’re steppin’ in, and my friend. Anyway, it’s not about being the BEST! It’s about doing the best one can do, with their preferred rifle. I’ve expounded on this before. Every time I pick up my Savage, it outs a smile on my face.

 

[K80skeet]

Well of course you can compare a Savage to any custom! You just did! LOL! J/K

Seriously though, I get it. I’m smellin’ what you’re steppin’ in, and my friend. Anyway, it’s not about being the BEST! It’s about doing the best one can do, with their preferred rifle. I’ve expounded on this before. Every time I pick up my Savage, it outs a smile on my face.

I guessed you missed the point. No, you can't compare them. Those custom actions are perfect in every way and are all built to really tight tolerances they are not mass produced like the off the shelf rifle. It makes a big difference if the shooter is good enough. That's why all the top shooters are using them. You will not see any but custom rifles winning. There is a reason for that. The top shooters shoot the very best equipment they can buy or build. So you can't compare to Savages. I love my Savages and they shoot very well for what they are. But the shooter has to be good enough get everything out of the rifle.

 

[ONE-TEN]

I guessed you missed the point. No, you can't compare them. Those custom actions are perfect in every way and are all built to really tight tolerances they are not mass produced like the off the shelf rifle. It makes a big difference if the shooter is good enough. That's why all the top shooters are using them. You will not see any but custom rifles winning. There is a reason for that. The top shooters shoot the very best equipment they can buy or build. So you can't compare to Savages. I love my Savages and they shoot very well for what they are. But the shooter has to be good enough get everything out of the rifle.

Yes, I agree. I’ve actually used some of that in retelling why I DON’T use a full Custom. I prefer Savage Actions as a matter of nostalgic fondness, and I use the high quality Button Rifled barrels over top quality Cut rifled Barrels like Brux, Bartlein or Kreiger because my shooting simply would not benefit from it. A Build using a Savage Action & any high quality Button Rifled barrel will still outshoot what most people can do. Certainly the case for myself! Add to that my particular disability & vision problems, coupled with the fact I don’t compete, and the added cost of a custom Action & Top shelf barrel would be wasted. In my situation of course.

However, I was simply joking around. That, as a matter of fact, a person “can” compare the two. So, I didn’t miss anything. I was simply adding a light hearted note to the topic. But yes, I do comprehend the top 1% of shooters using the very best equipment. Quite honestly, if I was competing, I would also use the very best. For me though, it’s simply personal enjoyment. And to that, no person enjoys this hobby more than someone like myself, simply for using top shelf gear.

 

[K80skeet]

I really like playing around with the Savage rifles as the are real cheap entertainment. I buy another action and get a new barrel and play with loads and bullets until I can find something that shoots really well. I usually put 400-450 rounds before I am done. The Savages make it easy and cheap to have a new caliber to wring out. I have had great luck with E.R. Shaw barrel Stainless Steel Varmint size barrels that I buy from E.Arthur Brown when their on sale. I don't spent over $250 I have bought a couple for $219 shipped. So far I haven't got a bad one. I built a 280 Ackley 1 in 9.5 twist light varmint last summer and it took over 300 rounds before I found what it liked. IMR7828 & RL-22 with 168gr Bergers. It shoots one little hole. I just got some RL-23 I will try in the spring. I bought a Savage Hog Hunter in 308win this winter from Palmetto Armory the winter $449.00 with a $100 rebate so for $349 it is something wring out before installing a new. That's cheap entertainment.